Beyond the Claim
Beyond the Claim

Episode 3 · 2 months ago

Leading with Analytics w/ Dennis Tierney

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

The pandemic has shown us that you have to lead with analytics.

Even before COVID, analytics were around, but they seemed like something that sat in the backseat. They can't stay there. Analytics have to drive your claims department.

And as newer and better models and algorithms emerge, our industry can look deeper and deeper into the ways that technology can advance our work.

Dennis Tierney, National Director of Workers Compensation Claims at Marsh, joins the show to discuss using analytics to prioritize the right claims.

In this episode, we discuss:

  • How the pandemic has changed the way workers' comp claims work
  • The future of the talent gap in the insurance industry
  • What affects mental health has on injured workers, claims costs, and the public

Need more claims strategy in your life? Check us out on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on our website.

Listening on a desktop & can’t see the links? Just search for Beyond the Claim on your favorite podcast player.

Being able to lead with analytics andreally helping prioritize, those claims that you need to work on right now isjust really something: That's unavoidable, you're listening to beyondthe claim, the show for forward thinking, risk and claims professionalscurious about the latest industry, Trans winning strategies and storiesfrom influential leaders. Let's dive in welcome to be on the claim, I meanhelst, Mark Cunningham, chief sales and marketing officer with broad spire today happen with me, Denis Tyrany tennis is national director of workers, COPclaims, with March marches on the world a leading professional service forms inthe area of Risk Strategy and people. Then I thank you so much for joining ustoday. Sure mark thanks. Thanks for having me appreciated, all thingsconsidered an okay, you know, and these crazy times you know things are thingsare doing fine, so appreciate it. I'm glad to hear that I know these aredefinitely challenging times and we're all trying to make the most of it. SoDennis is national director of work. COP Claims Dennis. Do you are you? Iknow you've held multiple titles over your years and I'm sure that you areyou know, staying engaged in work cop throughout this pandemic, but before wedive into you, know, work cop or the industry as a whole or your time atMarch. Can you give you some background for the audience of just your yourjourney? Your story start as early as you want to. You can be from elementaryschool or from college, whatever you're comfortable with. But what's thedentist story? Yeah, so you know I'm a city kid right. I grewup in the Bronx, the rocks New York, obviously a big Yankee Fan and then, asI as I got older when we moved up a little bit north to in New York, so you know, went the Catholic school fromkindergarten to twelfth grade, went to an all boys Catholic school. So I guessgood and bad in certain ways of ending. How do you think about that? You knowwent to college and my plan was to...

...become a lawyer right, so I made or inpolitical science I minored in law ended up going to law school for abouta little last thane year, Saint John's University, and it just it just wasn'tfor me right it just it just not. I wasn't you know so everything that Ithought it was going to be so at that point in time I ended up going and getmy masters. I mastered in a public administration with a concentration inhealth care and a through our college. I worked for a the internationalbrother of electrical workers. They have, you know a health and WelfareFund, so I did mostly health and welfare benefits. So I had a little bitof the background on that, but once I graduated rated school and got myNamtar, I needed a job right and again, you know, like everyone else, mostlyeveryone else in the industry. You know we got to insurance just by you knowalmost by accident right, so I need a job and liberty. Mutual was was, washiring so once it our interview, they didn't know much about workscompensation, but they basically, I guess I did a good job because theyhired me right on the spot right either that or they just needed people. Oh youknow so so they hired me on the spot, and I thought of my career back in twothousand and two as the work is complain adjuster for living mutualhere we are just about twenty years later right, so work for liberty forabout four years and then started my career at Mash in two thousand and six.So you know it was a great decision. Your March has been great, it's a greycompany to work for so so again. Here I am, and I guess you know, like manyothers, I'm stuck in the industry now and until my career is also what wasthe catalyst to shift from the the claims you know operations toconsulting. You know, I didn't really know muchabout it. What what ended up happening was kind of like you know what I do nowsomewhat. That person was on an account and I was working in liberty and they Iguess they liked the way I handled self and the way I presented myself andthere was an opening in marsh and that person who I got to know a little bit.You know recomended me for the job and...

I'm allays someone that is up for newchallenges right. I mean honestly like his handling the work, as comes carefor four years start to get a little boring. So I wanted to see what elsewas out there and is a up for new challenge, and when I you know, I wentfor the job. I saw that it was a was a lot more involved than just workers,cop right there was a lot more that went into it. So that really interestedme so yeah I went to went for the interview at Mars was lucky enough toget the job, and here we are, you know in two thousand and twenty one right.So it's crazy how things work out! I've got to believe that starting off thatwas an adjuster just laid a solid foundation for you to operate. You knowin the consulting space understanding the work cop environment is such anintimate level. I know for me, I started off with Hewitt or an Hewittand then now allied on the benefit side, so I can, I can aline there. I stayedthere a little longer than you, and only recently over he last couple ofyears transition the war work compend casualty, but a along the way I foundfrom a claim standpoint having for me, I didn't manage claims, but I didmanage the technical opponent so back in business analysis, setting upcomputer systems as well as third party applications that were usedfor the administration, and I found that administering the the benefits andunderstanding policies at that level have always allowed me to communicatemore effectively and more comfortably. You know in various conversations,regardless of the type of program I'm dealing with it. Did you find that itactually helped you in that transition compared to to some of y appears at thesame Er Yeah? I would say definitely from a technical standpoint. It didright, I mean I have to say coming from a carrier back in twenty on to twothousand and six. When I started in March, you know, coming from a carate,a broker was a little bit of a world win right, I mean I a carrier. It wasreally structured when he came to the broker back, then it wasn't astructured, and you know what marsh kind of gifted me with was the accountsthat they assigned to me. You know a good majority of them, weren't evenwork as cop their a liability right. So...

I kind of almost had a learn on the fly,but to your point it definitely gave me that technical knowledge and work isCom. Definitely Gaming, that knowledge and how to just speak, to clients anddeal with clients and problems solve and find the solutions right becausekind of what we do in our industries. We find solutions for clients sodefinitely get. Having that background, a liberty, mutual kind of set me up fora success in that area, so fast forward to two thousand and twenty at the timepandemic kits, and then you know we're in twenty late, O tousand and twentyone now over the past two years. I know that we've seen some change in theindustry in reaction to the PENDETA initially accommodating. You know:Customers and clients that were in the middle of the pandemic and who knowstechnically speaking where we are in the phase of the pandemic at this point.But where have you seen the work cop, specific industry change over the pastcouple of years? Where do you see it going in response to the pandemic? Yeah,I would say you know the one area and obviously it was. It was just likenothing. We seen before right, I mean the pandemic hit and you know everyoneworked from home and I think my family saw me last when I was working fromhome during the pandemic than I was at the office right because it was justnon stopped, but I think one of the main things that at least I communicateto our clients- and even to my to my colleagues is bettent that the pandemichas shown us is, is really you have to lead with analytics right. You know, Ifeel, like you know, analytics have always been around and it's always beensomething that we've talked about, and maybe it was kind of you know not inthe front seat, but when we're on the back seat but the pandemic. You knowthere was just so many things coming at you. So many things you had to takecare of a so you really don't didn't have the time to manage. You know whateverything that he wanted right, so you really had to prioritize those claimsthat you needed to manage the ones that really have the ability to have youknow to blow up and to have really high...

...exposures right and the best way to dothat is to lead with analytics, to be able to use your analytics to helpidentify those claims to work on right. So now what I say to appliance is youknow we need to leave with analytics right, you need they need to be at theforefront. You know we don't know. What's coming down the Pike Right, thepandemic is still around but being able to leave with analytics and reallyhelping prioritize. Those claims that you need to work on right now is justreally something that's unavoidable, so that's kind of the main thing that I'veseen and it kind of helped it push analytic sort of forefront and makingit kind of number one priority that we have in managing claims and when yousay you know, leave with an alike specific to the P. I know you ingeneral you're saying it's a strength and I must have specific to you knowcoid and the pandemic. Did you find that there was a need beyond whatcurrently existed, to be able to track and trend at that level? Or did you seethat as a on average that the market, the clientsyour clients were in need- and you know the the vendors parity periods wereprepared to some degree to provide that temment like yeah? I think they wereprepared to some degree. I think, like anything else, right, no matter what wehave, we always can make it better and improve it. So I think, like I said, tosome degree they were prepared, but I think the pandemic has even made usneed to enhance that even more really get getting down and really being ableto write up tivy those things that we couldn't see with the levels ofanalytics that we currently have or models that we currently have rightbeing able to help drive models and create newer models and algorithms thatcan really get deeper and deeper. So I think the pandemic. You know it's ahorrible thing, but it continues to be, but it forced us to kind of thinkdifferently and to utilize technology differently right, we've seen it in theindustry in many different ways right tell them. Medicine obviously tell hemedicine workers comp was really slow to adapt that and when the pandemic hit,we really didn't have a choice right, because that was the only thing thatwas available so again to get back to...

...our answering your question, I think,to a certain degree we were set up, but I think it only push thus in theindustry to get better and to get more advanced into. You know kind of leadingwith that and then so. In light of that you've seen that evolution, I've seensome other products you know outside of it like that, have been created inresponse to the pandemic. Where do you? What do you see things going over thelet's say: The pandemic continues for another six, twelve months, sure that'simpacting your clients directly and indirectly, depending on the Inye inwhere do you see the need the work cot market going? I guess it within thatshort term and then maybe even beyond that, as we, you know, look to justkind of either re established the old norm or adjust to the new. Well, Ithink the industry as a whole right now, especially, I think you know in theclean provider space- is really struggling just with with talent andpeople right. I think we've seen that across the board, where, whether it bethat you know folks are just retired or you know, there's just there's just anabundance of a need of getting people right. So my concern is that if thepandemic continues that you know trying to fill that gap and feel that need isgoing to continue as well, which is definitely a hazing, is having animpact on appliance. You know my hope is that not ups from a claim just fromto Mcclain standpoint or an industry standpoint, but just for you know theworld and live in that the pandemic comes to an end and with that hopefullythings to get back to the Loman. What do I mean by that is, you know, beingable to you know, fill those positions of people that have left or retiredbeing able to have those interactions in person that I still think are reallyvaluable that aren't going on right now. So again, you know it's hard to predictwhere it's going. I know where we are now, and my hope is that you know what,with the pandemic, hopefully getting better, that some of these issues weredealing with will be able to be solved. Agreed agreed completely all right. Iknow every one is probably had their fill of pandemic talk over the last.You know, eighteen plus a month, so...

...will shift gears a little bit. You knowI do you look o wealth of experience in the work comp industry. I have tobelieve you've come across some kind of misnomers or some misunderstandingconcepts around or cop or the industry as a whole. Is there anything that youknow one or two items that might stick out for you that you want to make? Youwant to correct the record now with this this world wide audience that youhave sure sure from work thanks for that to me anyway, I feel like when,whenever you know you mentioned insurance to those people that aren'tin it, it seems like people are like really insurance or like insurance likeit's so boring right and I feel like that is really so wrong, because whatpeople don't realize is it's. Insurance is really a gateway. The so manydifferent things right I mean just because you work in insurance. You know,there's there's marketing, you know there is accounting, there's financing,es, there's communications right, there's the stuff that I do right,other it's on the writing. So there's so many different things in the worldof insurance that that that people kid get involved in work on, and maybe I'mbiased, but I feel like a lot of those things- are really interesting andexciting and dynamic right. It's I know when my world things are never boring,because things are always changing and I'm learning every day. I'm not sure ifyou could say that in every single industry or every single job, so theone thing I'd like to get out there to those listening is that insurance isnot boring. It provides great careers for people and once you get in and Ithink he'll see that it really is something that really could you knowenlighten yourself and you could have you know a good now freer path on it aswell. I think it's a fantastic point. I mean I think, within even the industry,as we're communicating out to you know the the general audience that we shouldspeak from a position of of confidence and of appreciation for because Istarted I graduated masters, but also...

...my Undergrad was in finance. Didn'tthere was no transferable, you know knowledge to this pace. One. There wasno opportunity to develop a degree right for this particular market. Sothat's an area where we have to improve, although I know that there's at leastwithin the adjuster space there's more of an educational path there, but evenwith graduate go to go to the benefits outsourcing company and have doneeverything from technology to implementation, to account management,to sales, to operations and to your point you know: That's not necessarilyalways could be possible across many industries and whether I dabbled in alot of different things, or I really had a deep concentration in one. It hasvery little to do with the immediate perception that many have of insurance.Being you know, boring legal driven policies right and so yeah. I think,there's definitely a narrative out there that we need to change becausethere's a ton of opportunity and, as you mentioned earlier with T, you knowwe're going through a wave of retirements. You know that we wereworking aggressively to account for as an industry, and I think we have tostart with really recruiting some top talent into the space so that wereprepared for a long term. I mean this is a this. Is a critical industry thatwe're in to make sure that people are made whole and you know we in remainhole throughout their life? So you know that being said, you've been in theindustry for a while and you've seen a lot and I'msure some things that you would want to improve upon. So if you know, if you're,if you're thinking hey I've got some, you know magical powers, and I want tosnap my fingers and solve or any challenge that might be out there. If Icould do it today, was there there anything that comes to mind that yousay you know we can. We can do better. We should do better yeah, I meandefinitely an now. I'm not going to be er, not going to say it against. Wetalked about a definitely to town. Yet right, that's huge because again,that's the future. That's he that's the president and future of the industryand another thing, what's really dear dear to me, is and because of I'minvolved in workers. COMP is kind of...

...the dilemma we deal with in WorkersConclin with that whole cycle, social aspect right and the whole mental. Themental aspect of claims right, I think, as an industry, we've done a great jobof kind of bringing that sort of forefront even before coid, but evenmore so with Ovid. But you know what we see is how that has such a huge impacton claims and has an even more important has such a use impact onpeople right. So you know we're in the business of you know getting people thecare they need and getting them. You know trying to get them back to workand making them better right. So that one thing really, if I could snap myfingers, I would love to be able to find some way to help cure that rightup to find some sort of a solution around that whole cyclosis aspect thatmental aspect, which really hinders an impacts- or you know our injuredworkers and all the stuff that they go through right and and even if you thinkabout it, it's not it's really throughout the course of life right. Imean people have so many challenges, and so many things to deal with and thepandemic has only added on to that. You know so much still again. If I had thatmagic wand, I would love to fix that, because if we, if we could fix that, Ithink it would just make the world that I would make make people be able to getbetter quickly and selfishly for me and what I do would it would help reduceclam costs right so so yeah. That would be my one major thing. You know thatI'd love to cure and more fix if I had that those kind of powers so followFeston, and so you know, we've seen nationally that whether it be areathletes or prominent figures that you know much more willing and able toacknowledge when there are mental health compone, you know, concerns andcomponents. I know it wasn't an option to a degree that it is, as I wasgrowing up in, and I think that we as a society or thankfully, more acceptingand more supportive of individuals going through that as challenges comingfrom the the benefit space. You know a lot of the health insurance. The thedisability insurance was driven in some...

...way or form to account for those typesof circumstances. Although there were, there was a room for improvement. I wassurprised, though, and at a Jere stiction level we were camp, that therewere still the limitations in those types of benefits that there are insome places, not everywhere, but do you do you anticipate there being a changein light of the current temperatures or that maybe we haven't seen today, givensome of the you know the jurisdictional componte that are on the books today,yeah. I think I think we can mark and I think it's already started right. Ithink we've seen you know with presumptions. You know presumptionsthat you know kind of Nice walk about presumptions like kind of changing thelaws. We've seen a big up push around that specific to Copin, but I thinkeven now, as we move outside of Covin, we've seen jurisdictions changing lawspecifically more to first responders right, because those are the onespeople on the front lines where you know. Maybe in the past you know insome jurisdictions that's a put in a mental health claim. You might need aphysical injury right, whereas now I think some of the the jurisdictions arechanging that or where you don't right and that's kind of help changing thelaw. So I think that will continue to kind of move forward. I think theindustry is kind of starting with first responders, but I think it's going tokind of trickle down to those, maybe outside those industries, because toyour point I think, as a society we're realizing that it's so important andpeople are impacted in many different ways, so to not give them that abilityto get the care they need or the support they need of the benefits theyneed is really a disservice. So I think it's starting and I think it's going tocontinue as we move forward here- excellent excellent. Well, Dennis weare we're up against it. I do appreciate your time today veryinsightful and I anticipate that our audience will you now find what you'vebeen able to share very rewarding if folks want to get in contact with you?I know Linkedin is very popular. Is...

...there an easier? Is there an easy wayto get in on to the linked in, I think assume would be your go to yeah.Linkedin Linkin is definitely the you know the best way. You know I'm on theair, my contact informations on there. So if anyone likes to wants to reachout him, I'm always open and willing to meet a new people or speaking withthose that that I've met in the past. So you know it was. It was great totalk to you as well. I really enjoyed it and thanks again for the opportunity.Thank you Denis great talking to you, hopefully see you in person soon, yes,that we agree. You've been listening to beyond theclaim, a podcast for risk and claims leaders to ensure you never miss anepisode. Please subscribe to the show in your favorite podcast player. If youuse apple podcast, we love for you to give us a quick rating for the showjust tap the number of stars that you think the podcast deserves until nexttime stay curious and keep innovating t.

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